Video: How Pride and Shame Block God’s Presence
(Singing) I know my God has made the way for me. I know my God has made the way for me. ANNOUNCER: Welcome, to the Believer's Voice of Victory. Join Gloria Copeland and her special guest Kellie Copeland as they reveal how pride and shame shut the door to God's presence in your life. Now, here is Gloria Copeland. GLORIA: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcast today.
Kellie's with us today, Kellie Copeland, our famous daughter– KELLIE: Ha-ha. GLORIA: –is going to be sharing on–what are you going to be talking about? KELLIE: Well, we're going to be talking about–overall, I would say it's, God wants us in His presence. GLORIA: Amen. KELLIE: And He wants to fill our lives with His presence. GLORIA: That's called fellowship, isn't it? KELLIE: It is. And there are some tricks of the enemy that keep us out of fellowship, keep us–I mean, He's in us, but keep us from being in His presence– GLORIA: Distracted. KELLIE: –keep us from knowing His presence, keep us–keep Him from being able to fully just invade our space. And so I believe the Lord wants us to talk about some of those things. And I've titled this week, "Unlocking the Treasure Within." We've got good stuff on the inside of us. GLORIA: We do, don't we? KELLIE: And there is no–there is no reason for us not to be fully, fully walking in what God has for you.
GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE: He's pouring out His Spirit. I mean, Mama, I've seen things in the last few weeks that I've never even seen before. GLORIA: Good. KELLIE: The other day–you know, the Word says He's going to pour out His Spirit on your sons and daughters. And, you know, Dad had a word for the Lord for 2017, and part of what it said was, "Watch the children." Well, the other day, I just heard this yelling coming from the other room. I was in the kitchen, and I so I went in there to see if Emily was hollering at me for something. Well, I didn't let her see me because as I got closer, she was just worshiping the Lord at the top of her lungs– GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: –talking about, "I love You, Lord! I love you more than anybody! I love you more than my Mommy! I love You, Lord!" GLORIA: Isn't that precious? Glory to God. KELLIE: "I love you first! I love Mommy second!" I mean, she was just worshiping– GLORIA: Isn't that awesome? KELLIE: –the Lord.
GLORIA: Now, tell them how old Emily is. KELLIE: Emily is–she just turned six. And I mean, it went on and on– GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: –and on, and she was kind of moving rooms. Well, I was trying to listen to all that she was saying. But she came in the room, and she saw me, and she said, "Did you hear me?" I said, "Yeah." And then she goes, "Well, you're healed in the name of Jesus!" and she was like– GLORIA: Wow. KELLIE: –"Be–" She went like this: "Be healed!" and put her hands right here. I've been having trouble with my back. She put her hand on my back. GLORIA: Kellie, that's awesome. KELLIE: "Be healed! Mommy, you're healed! In the name of Jesus." GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: She was not faking, she was not emulating.
GLORIA: She was ministering. KELLIE: She was praying in the Spirit. She said, "Let's pray in tongues right now. (Praying in the Spirit)" GLORIA: Isn't that awesome? KELLIE: There was a little Spanish mixed in with her tongues, too. GLORIA: Well– KELLIE: But it's just– GLORIA: That happens to everybody. KELLIE: That happens to all of us, doesn't it? But it was marvelous. GLORIA: That is wonderful. KELLIE: And He literally poured His Spirit out on her in worship. And this worship was a high level of worship. GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: It wasn't like a–didn't sound like a little kid worshiping. GLORIA: That's just marvelous. KELLIE: She's writing new songs and singing in the Spirit– GLORIA: Ooh, what a way to grow up. KELLIE: –ministering healing. She started marching in front of the refrigerator, up and down, up and down across the rug in front of the refrigerator, "We're healed by the stripes of Jesus.
" She was just preaching. GLORIA: That is just awesome. KELLIE: 40 minutes. GLORIA: 40 minutes. KELLIE: Never stopped except for towards the end, she said, "And Jesus, we're gonna go play right now, but we are going to keep worshiping you as we play, and we're going to go play right now. But we're going to come back to this." GLORIA: Isn't that–Kellie, that's just amazing. KELLIE: It was. His Spirit was poured out. GLORIA: Praise You, Jesus. KELLIE: So we're really walking in a time where being in His presence is not hard. But– GLORIA: Wow. KELLIE: –He is cleansing us from some things, and we need to allow it to happen. You know, one of the things that you begin to realize over your life is that people don't like change. I, in fact, have not liked change. I like it now because I got ahold of myself. But if we're not going to like change, we're not going to be able to be in His presence because you're going to be changed when you get in His presence.
GLORIA: "From glory to glory," it says. KELLIE: I know. And, you know, Mom, I–we've talked a lot. Thank you for letting me be on the broadcasts with you. GLORIA: Thank you for coming. KELLIE: Because we've had quite a few weeks through 2016 and now 2017, and we've talked a lot about correction. And I know I appreciate y'all sticking with me because the Word kind of runs people off sometimes till you get hungry for it. And then–and you start realizing that God is just a loving Father who's guiding and directing us. You know, sometime–you can't talk out of both sides of your mouth. You can't say, "Well, I don't like correction," and then also say, "Lord, I want your presence," and then also say, "I want things to change in my life." And also, you can't say, "Why doesn't God get more involved in my life?" if you're a person that doesn't like correction.
GLORIA: That's true. KELLIE: Those–all of those go together. GLORIA: That's a good point. KELLIE: And so by making a determination that you trust Him, making a determination that you're going to hear from Him, making a determination that His presence in your life is going to equal some change in a lot of ways, you start to–when you make those decisions, you start to welcome it, and things really start to change. So we were–I just–I have a lot of places to go. GLORIA: Good. KELLIE: And we're just going to get started. I wanted to bring up a couple of places in the Word of God where you see–because we're–I want to start with shame. Shame is one of the places that Satan has tricked the Body of Christ, tricked God's children into not stepping in to walking with ours or stepping into the places that He has for us. Shame–shame is–for most people, if you said, "Do you have shame?" They would say, "No. God–Jesus carried my shames.
" But if you dig into it a little bit, you realize some behaviors that do show some shame as having a hiding place. And that's where God started showing me some shame was hiding. And I started ripping it out, and it started changing my life. GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: So, let's talk about what shame can look like because we're going to unlock the treasure that's on the inside of us. And shame is a–we could call it a blessing blocker, but it's a–it's a presence–it's blocking His presence from coming across in your life. So one of the–one of those stories that comes in my thinking is about the rich, young ruler. So real quick. We're not going to spend a lot of time here, but let's look at Luke 18. In Luke 18, we read, in Verse 18, "Once–" I'm reading out of the New Living to you.
"Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: 'Good teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?'" Now, this here–this calls him a religious leader, but in Mark 10, it calls him the "rich young ruler." So he was rich, and he was young, and– GLORIA: He had authority. KELLIE: –he had people over–underneath him. He was ruling over people. Well, you know, that could be a recipe for pride. GLORIA: Yeah. KELLIE: You know, you're rich, you're young. We'll just say he was good looking, and maybe he had some pride operating in his life. But there's places that we all have pride. If we're not allowing God to correct us, then we definitely have pride. I tell you what, we were in a service recently, and Brother Keith Moore had everybody rebuke pride. He taught about pride. Everybody should listen to pride because it's really most prideful to think, "I have no pride." GLORIA: (Laughs) KELLIE: Because unless you've really dug around in it, unless you've let the Lord dig it out of you and point it out to you, we have places that we need to take authority over that are prideful.
And so he had us pray this prayer at the end, and he said–we said something like, "You know, we resist pride, and, Lord, teach us and help us to recognize pride." But he warned everybody, "Now, you know, the Lord–you're going to face some stuff that you may not like when you start talking about rooting up pride." So this guy, he had some pride going on in his life. But He says–Jesus says, "Why do you call Me good?" Jesus asked him. "Only God–" GLORIA: What verse are you starting at? KELLIE: Luke 18:18. "Only God is truly good." You know, right here, Jesus gives us a really good picture of humility. Jesus is unwilling to be called "good" in comparison to the Father. And you know, I think we've talked–you know, people have thought a lot and talked a lot about humility, but the other day the Lord said something to me that was kind of eye-opening for me. Humility is not so much diminishing yourself, but uplifting God.
It's not so much saying, "I'm just a little-bitty nothing–" I mean, it's not that at all. I'm not saying I'm a little-bitty nothing. It's saying, "My Father is huge." And when you get into a circumstance or a situation in life, you get focused on the situation and, "What am I going to do about it?" That–it might not sound like pride, but that's pride because you're thinking, "What am I going to do?" as though you're the answer, as though you're the Savior. GLORIA: Well, you do have certain responsibilities to take that Word. KELLIE: You have this responsibility. GLORIA: Yeah. KELLIE: And you have a responsibility to believe what He says and to rest, which, in that, you're saying–you rest in God, you're saying He's the big–He's the big One in the room. GLORIA: Absolutely.
KELLIE: And so that's what Jesus was saying here. GLORIA: Jesus is Lord. KELLIE: Jesus is good. But He's saying, "My Father is really good." He says, "Only God is truly good." But to answer your question, you know the commandments; you must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not testify falsely, honor your father and mother. So the man replied–and honestly, I can hear some pride here. "Well, I've obeyed all these commandments since I was young." He said, "I don't have a problem. That's–" And he's feeling–he's feeling good. But he's got his goodness–see, Jesus knew the key to him, because this guy had his own goodness wrapped up in his own actions.
And Jesus started poking a hole in that bubble by saying, "There's not any good but the Father." But that was part of what this guy's problem was, thinking of hisself as where the goodness came from, like, "I've got this, I'm doing it, I'm obeying it." "When Jesus heard his answer, he said, 'There is still one thing you haven't done. Sell all your possessions and give your money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, and follow me.' But when the man heard this he became very sad, for he was very rich." You know, I don't–I don't believe that this is just about the money because the reason I'm using this to point out shame is because he had so much of his success and his goodness and his standing based on his own actions and his own obedience. So as soon as Jesus said, "There's one more thing that you need to do," instead of hearing it as, "Just one, and I'm in? Just one thing, and I've–I can follow You? Just one thing, and I'll be like You?" instead of hearing it like that, he heard it, "There's one thing you're not doing," not one more thing you need to do, but there's one thing you're not doing.
And so instead of seeing what Jesus was really saying, he took shame that he wasn't doing the one thing. GLORIA: Mm. KELLIE: And so in that, he turned his back on Jesus. He says, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!" "It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God!" And, of course, that's shame, and it's pride. And those two things will keep you out of the kingdom of God. Not talking about going to heaven. I'm talking about walking in His presence, walking in His ways. Jesus, when He said, "Come follow me," do you think–Mom, can you see how he would have been in the very presence of Jesus if he had done–if he had just let go of that one thing– GLORIA: Yeah. KELLIE: –he would have had daily presence with Jesus. Well, it's not any different for us. It's pride that keeps us from walking in His presence.
GLORIA: Which could be a lot of different things. KELLIE: A lot of different things. GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE: Pride and shame keep you from walking in His presence. And I thought about this. I thought, if you just take–if you just take the names off of this–these stories, take the–the stories out of the Bible and just say–ask somebody, "Would you rather be someone who does everything that the Bible says and just has one thing left that they need to do? Would you rather be that person? Or would you rather be a person whose life is a total mess but just falls at Jesus' feet in repenting?" You know, most people think it's a shorter walk to go from doing everything right and just having that one thing left. And maybe for some people it would be. But if you look at the woman at the well, she was a mess. GLORIA: Yeah, she was. KELLIE: She was a mess.
But, Jesus–oh, I love Jesus–I talked about this on the broadcasts. I won't go into the whole story now, but we can go in and look at it. It's–she, the woman at the well, lives in John. GLORIA: She lives in John? KELLIE: She lives in John 4. So He's at the well. She comes to the well in the middle of the day. She's got–really, she's a better example of shame affecting her life, but she's also an example of how easy it is to come out of it. But she's at the well. She comes in the middle of the day. So that tells us–and there's nobody there, so the–the town village well in the middle of the day is hot. People are not there. And so it tells me that she's going there on purpose and that this is not a pleasant task for her. This is not something that she wants to keep doing, even. She doesn't want to be around people. She doesn't want to be around the gossip. She doesn't want to be around people that look down on her or judge her or shame her because she's hasn't been living right.
Jesus says, you know– GLORIA: What verse are you on? KELLIE: I'm on–this is John 4. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but she come–He comes to the well. He's there. He says to her, "Please give me a drink." You know, the entry of Jesus into our lives, it's different for every person the way He can grab you, the way He can go out and go after you. But He's always pursuing every one of us because He loves us so much. Well, He was pursuing her that day, even though He was just sitting at the well. So He says, "If you knew–if you want–in Verse 10, "If you only knew the gift God has for you and who you're speaking to, you would ask me, and I would give you living water." GLORIA: Mm. KELLIE: But she starts to–she thinks He's just talking about water, and where would you get it? How come you can get well–water, you don't even have a bucket? You know, she's being all practical.
And then she starts slipping into pride. "'How can you offer better water than Jacob and his sons and his animals enjoyed?' Jesus said, 'Anyone who drinks this water will soon become thirsty again. But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.'" The Message says, "gushing fountains of endless life." Well, that sounds good to her. She's like, "You mean never be thirsty again?" She says, "Please, give me this water then I will never be thirsty again, and I won't have to come here to get water." She's thinking, "I won't have to come back to this place of shame. I won't have to come here in the middle of the day just so I don't run into anybody that's going to comment on how I'm living my life." GLORIA: Hmm. KELLIE: So that sounded good to her. She has no idea what He's talking about, but it sounds good to her to not have to come back here.
"Go get your husband," Jesus tells her. Now, here she is–and Jesus knows this. She's at a crossroads because that's where He put her. She's got to either tell Him the truth or tell Him a lie. She's got to either come closer or run away. What's she going to do? She could say, "I'm going to go get my husband. I'll be right back," and never come back. GLORIA: That's true. KELLIE: She could–because that's what people do to Jesus sometimes. They say–you know, He's pulling on them, and they're like, "Yeah, okay, Lord. Tomorrow," and then they don't come back. Or she could just flat out lie to Him. But she says to Him, "I don't have a husband." Well, He already knew that. He said, "You're right, you don't have a husband." I think the–and I've said this on the broadcasts before, but I think when I used to read that, I kind of hear Him with a–some correction in His voice about the way she's been living.
But now I've come to read this in a different light. I think He was complimenting her for telling Him the truth. I think He was–He was satisfied with her coming to Him with the truth. He was satisfied because she didn't allow shame to come between her and her Savior. And she didn't know yet that this is her Savior. GLORIA: That's right, mm-hmm. KELLIE: But He knew. He knew, "I have a gift for you." He knew, "I have the answers for you." He knew, "I have a whole new life for you." He knew that about the rich, young ruler too. But pride and shame caused him to run away. But this girl, even though, probably, if you looked at the rich, young ruler's life and you looked at this girl's life, you'd probably, if you were a betting person, bet on the rich, young ruler for being a Jesus follower. But that's not what happened. So it shows us, Mom, that it's not the outer picture that really is the most important.
It's what goes on on the inside of us. GLORIA: That's right. Your heart. KELLIE: Your heart, that becomes–and eventually what's in your heart will come out. So this girl says–He says–He begins to diagnose her. She begins to–she tries to argue with Him, and then she just begins, whatever He tells her, she must have, somewhere in here, began to receive it, because she runs off from Him, runs off to her village. We don't even see, I don't think, all the things that He ministered to her about because she–she runs off telling everybody, "Come see a man who told me everything I ever did." Now, that is a woman that got free from shame. GLORIA: Yeah. That's true. KELLIE: She is free. She's so free she's going to tell everybody to talk to the person that told her everything. She wasn't afraid He wasn't going to take care of her. She wasn't afraid He wasn't going to watch over her.
She just got free. GLORIA: Praise God. KELLIE: So we can pick it up here tomorrow, but that's exciting that you can go free from as deep a mess– GLORIA: That's right. KELLIE: –as you can imagine. GLORIA: Praise God. Thank You, Lord. Kellie and I'll be right back..